Hummer Hands Down! Jeeps No Contest!

by Tyler
(Raleigh, NC, USA)

2010 Hummer H3 Moab edition

2010 Hummer H3 Moab edition

Here's the deal. What Jeep owners don't want to hear is that right out of the show room floor the Hummer is better in every way.


For instance the Hummer H3 Adventure has 4:01 rear locking gears, full time 4 wheel drive, 33" All Terrain tires, and let's not even get into the approach and departure angels.

Now respect to the Jeeps because they were the first, and a great 4X4 vehicle they are.

In fact in you look at the front of the Jeep and the front of the Hummer they are similar. You ask why? Well Hummers were originally built by AM General Corporation, which was formerly AMC-Jeep's General Products division, in its Mishawaka, Indiana, assembly plant.

They were created under a contract for the United States armed forces. So actually Jeep and Hummer are all from the same blood line.

Now the argument about the Hummer H3 being a Chevy....? FALSE!

The H3 is the smallest of the Hummer models and is based on the GMT355 platform shared with the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon compact pickup trucks which is why some people say it's just a Chevy.

The Hummer H3 gets a naturally aspirated 3.5-liter five from its Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon platform mates, with whom it shares 10 to 15 percent of its components...10% to 15%, you can hardly say it's just a Chevy!

The Hummer H3 gets better gas mileage than the Jeep Wrangler, is better in the quarter mile than the wrangler even with all that weight!

Not to mention Rod Hall and Robby Gordon have been tearing up the SCORE Baja 1000, and The Best in the Desert, in both stock class and Pro-am with the Hummer H3 and H2. You don't hear the same about Jeep.

Comparing these two is not Apples to Apples. Not even close. Not saying that the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon isn't an excellent work horse off road, but the money you need to put into it right off the bat to even hang with the Hummer...well, let's just say you'd have to be a Jeep fan.


Larry's Comment: Like Hummers if you must Tyler...but in almost every side-by-side comparison of trail capability the Hummer comes up short when compared to the Wrangler.

I will concede the Baja racing props to Rod Hall and Robby Gordon piloting highly modified Hummers through the desert...but there's not much in common with the Chevy showroom Hummer I'm afraid.

What say you "Jeep Fans"?

Comments for Hummer Hands Down! Jeeps No Contest!

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NOT A JEEP!
by: Anonymous

It's not a Jeep, get it out of here!

JEEP---nothing better.
by: cooley

Hummers are the biggest joke when compared to Jeep Wranglers... especially the H3.

I'm not going to go into stats and all that. All you have to do is look and see the numbers on the road (or off the road) for the comparison.
GO BEARS!

Thanks for the stats....
by: Tyler

Wait, you didn't contribute any stats. Also the Rod Hall H3 raced in the Best in the Desert is a stock, yes that's right STOCK Hummer H3.

I know it's a tough pill to swallow Jeep owners, but the facts are the facts. Like the slogan says, "Hummer, Like nothing else!"



"Stock"?
by: Larry

Tyler...I don't think anyone is begrudging the H2 or H3 abilities in desert racing like the Baja or even Dakar...but the term "stock" can be misleading.

These professional racers have a team of factory "racing" engineers who build these great racing machines.

Yes, they use factory parts and accessories, but the finished product is nothing like "stock" when finished and race ready.

GM (like many others) has racing engineers and sponsor their professionals during race seasons to promote and perfect "factory" goodies.

Yes, if I had thousands of dollars and a team of factory engineers to pour goodies into my Jeep...I think it would perform a lot better than off the showroom floor too.

Also, Jeeps were made to do "Jeep" things, and Hummers do "Hummer" things!

One more thing, love the tricked out "stock" Hummers for racing...but could you talk to those guys who turn them into "pimp-mobiles" with all the bling, 24" mirrored wheels and enough chrome to be seen from the moon on a clear night?

Something rarely seen with Wranglers and CJ's...BTW!


Hummer vs Jeep
by: Mike

You just don't get it do you!

It's a Jeep thing, if we have to explain it to you, you would not understand.

I was there in the Army when they introduced the Hummer, and the main reason for it according to the "Brass" the little Jeeps we had could not keep up with the Abrams tank on the highway (Autobahn) in West Germany.

In the dirt the old Jeeps could go through mud and climb hills all while doing circles around the then new Hummer.

The guys laughed at them when ever they got stuck and they sent a Jeep to retrieve the crew.

By the way Larry thanks for all you do with this site. It is a lot of fun to read, and I know you put a lot of effort into it.

Mike

Agreed Larry
by: Tyler

I absolutely agree with you Larry, that a lot of what I call, "hate", from the Jeep community is towards the cliche' Hummer owner. Too much bling is a disaster for any automotive recipe.

I think if the Jeep owners look hard enough they'll see there's a community of us out there that visit Moab, that visit the Hummer Proving grounds in Indiana, and who subscribe to a motto of "anti-bling".

We too do not enjoy the bad rap a lot of the Hummer crowd brings upon us, but with any high-line popular vehicle, you will see that kind of thing.

Yes, the Jeep community seems to be more void of it, but we all have our downfalls. You still can't take away the fact that the Hummer line up is a beast off road.

Hummer isn't pumping out any products like the Jeep Compass, or Jeep Liberty Renegade, which is anything but!

I'm not saying Jeep is a bad product, it's a good one, but the long and short of it is simply,...it's not a Hummer.

Is this guy serious??
by: Tyler

The H3 is a good around town, and dirt road vehicle, but is lacking in offroad and trail conditions.

I don't know where you're getting your 10-15% numbers as far as engine and drive-train shared parts. The 3.5L (displacement increased to 3.7L for 2009 model)is an ALL GM engine, designed and built by GM.

It is used in several vehicles including the Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon, Chevy Trailblazer, and GMC Envoy in nearly identical trim.

The H3 also uses GM brakes, and suspension from the Colorado and Trailblazer models. The independent front suspension is a major weak point of the H3. It uses thin aluminum control arms that are prone to bending and breaking, and not designed for rugged offroad conditions. The rear differential however uses the KB7 produced by AAM and not GM directly.

The approach/departure angles are slightly better on the H3 than some Jeep models, but the overall length and width of the H3 combined with a rather lackluster turning radius limit it on tight trails.

Now as far as gas mileage and quarter mile time the Jeep once again out performs the H3 in fuel economy with an EPA rating of 15/19 (city/highway) to the H3 14/18 (2010 model year).

The 3.8L Jeep engine is rated at 202hp, 237ftlbs torque, with the H3 at 239hp, 241ftlbs torque.

Both use the A4 automatic as the standard transmission. Zero-to-60, and 1/4 mile times are unknown due to the fact these are very rarely tested on "off road SUV's".

If you have the chance to drive both vehicles you will notice the H3 is under-powered (a reputation well deserved across the Hummer line), and noticeably slower during acceleration.

Your statement that the H3 is not a Chevy is incorrect. It is in fact a Trailblazer with a suspension lift and a different body. If you want to argue semantics then yes you are partially right, it is not a "Chevy" but a GM product assembled using ALL GM parts, under the marque of Hummer...which until it's recent demise was a subsidiary of GM and a sister marque to Chevy.

When GM bought Hummer it immediatly changed the product line over to all GM parts and equipment.

The last true "Hummer" was the H1.

Bottom line, the H3 and its larger heavier brother the H2 are heavily optioned, re-bodied, luxury Trailblazers (Chevy Tahoe for H2) designed and marketed for "urban" driving not rugged offroad conditions.

Tyler H.
DeMontrond Hummer
Houston, TX

Hummers are the worst
by: ANDREW

That H3 engine is horrible. I had a rental Canyon Z71 with that motor. IT'S A TERRIBLE 5-CYLINDER, BAD ON GAS AND WEAK.

LONG LIVE JEEPS AND MY 2 COMANCHES.

A lil' of everything
by: lloyd

Being that I am a previous Jeep guy, I have had base Wranglers and Rubicons and now have a an H3. I sold my Rubi for a four door family vehicle, but still wanted something to go off road. Hands down the stock Hummer has the upper hand on any stock Jeep, with the only exception of the Rubicon. But with a lil' money put into the stock Jeep it can way out perform the H3 only because the Jeep uses the solid axle in the front which by any offroading standard is better.

H3 good vehicle , reliabilty no good.
by: Craig E

My Hummer H3's transmission has gone twice now. Waiting still for new transmission.

Hummer is just a Chevy?
by: Doug

I will say this:

If a Hummer is just a modified Chevy, then your Jeep is just a Fiat.

PLEASE LET'S SEE FACTS
by: MADforMUD

Forget all the statistics. Forget all the factory origin. Have you ever been on trails?
The Titanic (Hummer?) is good only because it is big, and army needs room to carry equipment. That is the end of the off road ability of the Hummers!

Have you ever seen an Hummer doing well in MOAB? In off road you need lightness and short space between front and rear axles. During off road camps here in Italy, guys with Hummers can't go all the way to the end of the trail because their cargo can't get through trees, they are too goofy in off road. Are you talking about real off road or some dirty road?

IT'S A JEEP THING, YOU COULDN'T UNDERSTAND!

P.S. Sorry for my English I'm writing from Italy.


Seriously Doug?
by: Tyler H.

Jeep is associated with Fiat through a corporate merger, and got its current CEO Sergio Marchionne as a result of the merger with Fiat S.P.A.

Jeep vehicles currently do not use any parts or technology from Fiat. However the engines, transmissions, and vehicle control systems were developed during the Daimler period of ownership therefore you could make the statement that they are Mercedes.

Calling them Fiats is totally inaccurate. Or if your talking about older Jeeps they were produced by the following, 1970-1987 AMC (Renault in 1986), 1964-1970 Kaiser-Jeep, 1953-1964 Kaiser-Jeep under the moniker Willys Motors, 1944-1953 Willys-Overland.

Hummers were originally produced for the US military by AM General, a subsidiary of AMC. In 1998 General Motors purchased the Hummer brand from AM General and produced the H1 which was based on the HUMVEE, and the H2, and H3 which were based on smaller civilian-market GM platforms the Tahoe and Colorado/Trail Blazer.

Hummers are street vehicles and not well suited for offroad applications, but if your looking to cruise the parking lot at the local mall with a lot of chrome, Hummer is the way to go.

Tyler H.
DeMontrond Hummer
Houston, TX

FIAT EFFECT
by: MADforMUD

Mr Marchionne is a true industrial king. He is smart and clever. He would let Jeep do what they are good to do and put a hand in where they fail. Wrangler and Grand Cherokee will get only better. The others, well there's nothing to save of other models, so if they change, well they can just get better.

Remember then that Fiat produce cars that have to cost less than Alfa, so they use low quality products.

Anyway they have probably the best engineers in the world, think just that Saab use their diesel engine, they had a prototype of an hydrogen engine since the 70's, but they couldn't produce it because the Agnelli's family got petrol factory.

Fiat engineers are responsible for Iveco, the best truck in the world named by international experts for a lot of years. In there they got briliant ideas, but the situation here in Italy just block them because of politics, economics and let's say it honestly, criminal interests!

Wrong! Check your facts before posting!
by: Anonymous

Tyler H. is wrong. Not taking sides just pointing out the obvious.

Help me out
by: Tyler H

Ok, you say I made a mistake. Please point it out and support your claim with some solid facts. I'm a certified automotive technician, and Jeep enthusiast, not a professional researcher. Mistakes can and will be made. So please help me out.

On a seperate note, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 straight off the show room floor turned a sub 9 min. lap at the Nurburg ring in Germany. This was a stock Grand Cherokee, ready for the trail or the Nordschleife. I would like to see a Hummer attempt to even come close to that.

Tyler H

A little help
by: Anonymous

So a Grand Cherokee SRT8 is trail ready off the showroom floor and a Hummer is not? LMAO!!!!! I believe Hummer H3 dominated the stock class at the BAJA races. How many JEEPS do you see winning. If you are a so called mechanic then why don't you know the pros and cons of an IFS vs. SA vehicle. Ah, because you are a HEEP fanboy! "Hummers are made for street use". Do your research and you will find only 10%-15% of the H3 is shared with the Trailblazer. They are made for offroad, off the showroom floor.

Like I said earlier I'm not taking sides, each has their pro's and con's, but people like you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason. Why not appreciate each vehicle because one is not superior to the other in any way off the showroom floor.

Hummers are for Looks Only...No Action!
by: Anthony

The Hummer is just a truck with a fancy shell. A stock Wrangler is better than the Hummer, and with a few good aftermarket add-ons the Jeep is just about UNSTOPPABLE.

A little more help for anonymous
by: Tyler H

Yes the SRT8 Grand Cherokee is trail ready off the showroom floor, and by the same note so was the H2, and H3. They are all 4 wheel drive and marketed as "off road ready" suv's. Jeep still uses a solid axle both front and rear for strength, and the solid axle suspension has an excilent reputation for off road performance and reliability. Hummers utilize the same solid axle rear suspension and indepentent front suspension as all other GM trucks. This provides them with a smoother ride and better handeling on the street, however the advantages gained from the independent front suspension are negated during offroad use due to the aluminum control arms and MacPherson struts. This suspension setup is well suited for passenger cars and trucks during normal road use but is not designed to handle the stresses and abuse of serious off road driving. The aluminum control arms may be lighter and cheaper to manufacture but are structurally weaker than the steel trailing links on the jeep front axle.

The MacPherson strut is another weak point in the Hummer suspension. It alone is the upper half of the suspension setup and only allows about 5-10 deg of lateral suspension flex before failure. An IFS setup has more flex/pivot points than an SA setup increasing the potential for component failure. The Jeep suspension is not perfect, but is much stronger, and therefore better suited for harsh off road use than the Hummer. Remember it's better to bend something and keep on rolling than to break it off and have to get drug back to town by a Jeep with a bent axle!

Now to adress the second part of your post. Pay close attention, this is very important and you need to fully comprehend this before you make any further posts....ever. As far as the BAJA 500 and 1000, Pikes Peak, Dakar rally, and all others. NONE OF THOSE VEHICLES ARE STOCK. They do compete in the "stock class" for BitD and SCORE, however 100% of the vehicles in these races are modified for racing and only vaguely resemble the "stock" vehicles you can purchase at a dealership. Yes Hummer did very well in offroad racing as have many other manuacturers. But just like Jeep they have never had an overall win. Ford is currently the leader with 15 overall wins in the BAJA 1000, and VW with 13 since the race began in 1967. Keep in mind that the comparison between class and overall win stats can and will be endlessly debated without a definitive winner.


Tyle H

More help for anonymous
by: Tyler H

I have done my research, as well as spent countless hours working on Hummers, Jeeps, and the full line of GM vehicles. I would like to know were you came up with your 10-15% part shareing statistic. The truth is that other than the body and interior hummers are nearly identical to their GM counter parts. This is a common practive in the automotive industry. Your argument is like saying that a Chevy truck only shares 10-15% with a GMC truck. It's nothing to be ashamed of, without GM Hummer would have died out in the early 1990's due to the massive price tag and high production costs. Be proud of your GM lineage. GM took Hummer from a rough, under powered military vehicle with questionable reliability to its performance pinnacle in 2010. Ask a veteran about an M998 HUMVEE and you will get a true assessment of their ability from someone who's life depended the quality and durability of the vehicle. You will be suprised at how disliked the Humvee is, especially with older vets that were around during the switch over from Jeeps to Humvee's.

I have been a mechanic for 15+ years, I have a degree in Automotive Restoration from McPherson College, and am currently a factory certified VW Tech (Hummer shut down and my dealership also has VW so I switched lines). My experience as a professional mechanic covers everything from a 1896 Benz pattent wagon to 2012+ vehicles. I base my argument off of real world performance, first hand experience, historical fact, and a little bit of personal opinion. Everyone has their own view but if you think that all vehicles are created equal you live in a fantasy world. If Hummer is superior why did it require a GM takeover to acheive a decent level of performance and reliability? Why did Hummer go through such drastic changes durring its short civilian production span? Why is it not still in production? Jeep was here first. Jeeps saw action in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and Panama. Jeep outlasted and out performed all challengers. Jeep is still producing the Wrangler which is a modernized (fuel injection, electronic engine management, ect)and slightly larger version of the CJ first produced in 1945.

The history of the Humvee has ties with Jeep. In 1971, Jeep's Defense and Government Products Division was turned into AM General, a wholly-owned subsidiary of American Motors Corporation, which also owned Jeep. In 1979, while still owned by American Motors, AM General began the first steps toward designing the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle HMMWV which later became known as the Humvee or Hummer. Once again everyone has their own opinion and this will be debated until the end of time, but one glaring fact remains. Jeep was here first and Jeep is still here sitting on top of the mountain waiting to take on the next challenger.

Tyler H

To the brilliant Tyler H.
by: Anonymous

The H3 DOES NOT USE McPherson struts. So lets see, you lied about 'working on countless hummers and jeeps'. What a load of crap, and for the stock class in the Baja, the vehicles are only allowed to have very few changes from stock, mainly shocks and tires but mostly stock. Do a little research and you will see only 10%-15% of the H3 parts are shared with the Colorado. By your own posts you have showed your ignorance, so I'm not wasting any more time posting since your not interested in FACTS.

Anonymous vs. Tyler H.
by: OkieA

Tyler H. WINS!
Anonymous needs an education before attempting to debate. Your attempts to discredit Tyler’s points are only a distraction from your inability to provide proof for your case. Your opinion is not proof in any court. Let it go! Tyler won!

Do you know why they run Hummers in Baja?
Because Trailblazer’s just don’t look cool!

I drive a Jeep because it works correctly for the job it was designed for. That is one of the reasons I am driving my 10th Jeep. The first 9 were ALL sold for a profit. Why? Because people know the brand's reputation and want a piece of it! How many people do you know that have bought a second or third Hummer? Jeep builds them because there is a market. Sorry my little brother Hummer, going miss ya!

some great arguments
by: Tyler W.

Interesting to see all the different arguments for both the Hummer and Jeep. I wrote this article a few years ago when I was in Iraq deployed with the Army. At the time I owned a Hummer H3 Adventure with a 2" suspension lift and 35" Mickey Thompson Baja Claws. This was one of the best vehicles I had ever owned. The beefy styling, big steering wheel, and great off road prowess gave me superior confidence in my Hummer.

I also own a Jeep Grand Cherokee that I love very much. Both are great off road. Obviously I don't have a Wrangler which is more comparable to the H3 but they are great too. I did a lot of homework and research on the H3 before posting this article. It's interesting to see how assumptions and facts can get tangled up in a back and forth discussion.

With GM failing to really help the Hummer line up it failed and became what we now know today. Jeep enthusiasts are die hard and will defend their identity, which is the Jeep product, til their death. Fact is the H3 Adventure which came with front and rear lockers 33" tires and some other critical off road must haves was the only true "off the show room floor" vehicle.

Jeeps "trail rated" badge only means it made it through. Ever seen what they look like when finished? I could take a '94 Chevy Corsica down a trail. Doesn't mean it's going anywhere once that trail is over, but it might make it. Same idea when you slap one of those badges on a Jeep Compass.

When I said that Rod Hall raced a stock version of the H3 Adventure in the stock class and won several times that's because he did. There are many different classes in the Baja 1000. His class was a stock class. You'll even find old VW bugs slightly modified racing the Baja so the thought that you have to have a million dollar racing Baja truck just isn't the case.

Thanks to all of you who provided legit, provable arguments for both sides, and whatever it may be that you're hitting the trails with have fun because at the end of the day...that's all that matters.

Brand bias is for morons, part 1
by: Wheels his H3s

Not sure if any will see this but I find so many comments here to be absolutely laughable and most of them come form complete ignorance of the topic combined with small minded brand bias. I have wheeled a lot with a lot of different brands and models, there is no perfect vehicle out there. My personal preference is my H3 and since somebody mentioned in a post about people not being repeat Hummer buyers this is my second and I know many people who have owned numerous Hummers often more than one at a time. Could I buy something else that is better off the showroom floor for wheeling, sure but that would limit me to the Rubicon and while it would have a slight advantage off road the H3 has far more advantages as a daily driver so it's hands down the winner for my needs/wants. That doesn't make it a better vehicle for everyone, just me. I have wheeled my H3s (essentially stock by the way) all over from West coast to East coast and when not with a group of other Hummers am with other types of rigs that are all modified yet I have no issues keeping up. Can I go everywhere a highly modified Jeep running 40" tires can go, of course not but the friends I wheel with who have such vehicles are always impressed, but they are also not blinded by brand bias. Somebody asked something about if anybody has ever seen a Hummer in Moab. I love it there and my H3 (again essentially stock) has run many of the harder trails there without a struggle.

Brand bias is for morons, part 2
by: Wheels his H3s

Many of the comments I read here are the same I have heard time and time again from people that have never actually seen what an H2 or H3 can do and when they actually look past their bias and see what they are capable of they are very impressed. I always have to laugh at the comments too about how many do you see on the trails versus Jeeps. When you look at the total numbers sold I would suspect the percentage of Hummers that are wheeled is very comparable to the percentage of Jeeps that are actually wheeled. If people would actually drop the childish attitudes the OHV community could work together to help fight the very important battle of keeping our public lands open for us to enjoy, be it in a Hummer, a Jeep or some other brand. Or are most of the posters here bashing Hummer just web wheelers that brand bash simply because they are so clueless?

Brand bias is for morons part 3
by: Wheels his H3s

I have to call out this Tyler person specifically because he claims to be a former Hummer mechanic, includes a Hummer dealership in his signature to imply credibility yet obviously doesn't know what he is talking about.

Let me address just a few of your screw ups. You keep harping on the 10%-15% of parts claimed as being false, but if I recall correctly that information came directly from the book that chronicles the history of the H3 from concept to production and was written by the actual engineers that designed it. I think I will give them a bit more credit on this than I will give you. You're a mechanic yet you claim the 3.5 liter was bumped to a 3.7 liter in 2009. The 3.5 liter was only in the 2006 model and they bumped it up to the 3.7 liter for the 2007 model year. I would think a seasoned Hummer mechanic would know that. You also keep harping on the aluminum control arms and how they are too weak for off road use so the H3 must not be capable. Do you have any repair history to back this up? I am very in tune with the Hummer off road community and can guarantee you this is not an issue those that wheel are having to deal with. You mention the length and width of the H3 being a problem yet it hits a sweat spot wheel base wise and I am normally as narrow or narrower than the modded rigs I am wheeling with. Turning radius, your kidding right? because it's got one of the best turning radiuses out there. Then there is the whopper that the H3 is a trailblazer with a lift and different body. Hey moron, the H3 is based off of a modified and beefed up Colorado/Canyon (GMT355) frame and was designed so that it could be built in the same Shreveport plant not the GMT360 platform of the Trailblazer. You made numerous other factually wrong statements but I have already wasted more time that you're worth. You asked the question of why Hummer is no longer around while Jeep is implying that somehow it's because Jeep is better. Fact of the matter is that Hummer was portrayed by eco-nazis as the worst thing on earth and when GM hit hard times it was made a scape goat which could have survived via selling it but the administration wanted to appease the far left and basically guaranteed its failure by blocking any deal from happening.

Brand bias is for morons, part 4
by: Wheels his H3s

With used prices getting lower you will see more and more H3s off road and if you can just look beyond your bias you will see how capable they actually are right off the show room floor. Are they the most capable off road vehicle (stock) you could buy? I would say the only stock vehicle (in its class of course) that could top an H3 Adventure would be a Rubicon, and more often than not it would come down to driver. I wheel circles around both stock as well as slightly modded Rubis on a number of occasions sometimes it was the driver sometimes it was just the vehicles capabilities. The one and only advantage I see in a Jeep is a big one and why they are popular, the aftermarket and how easy it is to modify them. When compared to most other vehicles such as the H3 it is far cheaper to mod a Jeep which is why you see it done so much. I personally like wheeling something different that takes more skill to both mod as well as get down the trail in stock form while wheeling with modded rigs. To each there own. Just wheel what you love and don't waste your time or energy with pointless hatred of what somebody else chooses. It just makes you look like an idiot.

h3 owner
by: Ben

I would like to throw a comment at the guy way back up there that says it is a Trailblazer with a new body. You need to look it up old timer! It has the frame shape of the Colorado or Canyon, but is a bit longer and unknown if wider, but it has more bracing across it. Crossmembers I assume are there to keep it from bending. Also the suspension is not quite the same as the Canyon and definitely different from the Trailblazer. Try slapping some 285" or 315" tires on your stock Jeep without finding problems. I assume we may also win in ground clearance and deep water crossings as well as comfort and luxury. Also they aren't bouncing you around like a bobblehead on the dash of a spring buck board. As far as not turning sharp and bad turning radius, I assume you are misinformed. It may not be a super short Jeep YJ but it is pretty good for a big truck.

I can't say Jeeps are bad cuz I have been some places in them. But in the places I have been in a Jeep I would rather have been in my H3 which has a more comfortable ride for everyone. And if you are gonna be stuck you got a comfy seat to sit in. :-)

[don't hate me for stirring the pot]

Just traded my '08 Jeep for ' 07 H3
by: glen

My '08 Wrangler JK Sahara was fun with the doors and roof off until it rains. It got 14.5 mpg average over a total of 71k miles. I had 285 Kelly tsrs on it and they rubbed on the control arms at full cock.

It rattled like a 1972 washing machine on anything other than pavement. After its warranty ran out at 70k...I payed extra for that...it started to burn 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles....no leaks....burned. Contacted jeep about this and they told me it was within normal standards. Looked online and found hundreds of other Jeep owners complaining of the same thing. Look yourself and try "Jeep JK excessive oil consumption" in any search engine.

It leaked water with the hard top and the soft top. I guess that is why it has drain plugs, and the top comes off so it can air dry.

It was piggishly slow on the road and the hood slapped up and down on the highway above 50 mph. Oh yeah and with my extraordinary height of 5'11'' the countless black and blue knee caps from the stupid door. I guess this is why the doors come off.

In hind sight it was fun but a real pos too. I bought the thing for 21k with 30k miles on the ticker. Traded it for 18k with 71k on the ticker. Bought a '07 H3 for 17k with 59k on the ticker.

Thanks Jeep for holding your value until I found an H3. Never ever would I own a Jeep Wrangler again. The H3 is faster, smoother, more comfortable, and does not leak or squeak rattle or whine.

It has more ground clearance and handles better. I don't crawl over stuff I drive over it...the faster the better. If I need to do 2 mph to go over a boulder I will just go for a hike...it's faster.

If I need to put my windshield down I'll go out for a ride on the Harley or the Honda dirt bike.

Oh, and my horse will go places neither an H3 or Rubi could ever imagine...and if I get stuck I can kill it and eat it for dinner. H3 all the way.

get off the brand team
by: Anonymous

Hummer and Jeeps are true off roaders. Everyone needs are different, and so if you read independent reviews you will find the right off roader for your needs. For me the Hummer H3 was it, better cargo area, better towing, and better off the show room floor capabilities. I didn't have to put thousands of dollars into it to get trail ready.

All Jeeps come with little tires. H3 came with 33s and able to up grade to 35s with no modifications. Jeeps need to be lifted 3 to 4 in. to put 33s under, and them some even more. The Jeep I had for a few years needed a lift to put 31s under it.

So stop being brand babies and respect the true facts. I have owned both, and the Hummer is BETTER FOR ME, and I still like Jeeps, I just like my Hummer more.

For true off roaders, we all know that 90% of trail riding is the ability of the driver and 10% of the vehicle capability!

(Hummer or Jeep) (Chevy or Ford) (apples or oranges)
by: Blake

Ok, I've owned the following:
1995 Jeep Wrangler
2009 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
2007 Hummer H3

Out of the two brands comparing a Hummer to a Jeep, or Jeep to a Hummer isn't what I would call a fair or unfair match.

They're two different beasts. It's like comparing two different muscle cars. Who's the best basketball player? Lol! The debate will never end. It is an ignorant debate. Your choices are all by opinion. Really, you can tell any "jeeper" that a Hummer is better and they would say, "go prove it". If they lost they would still say Jeeps are better because you didn't do what you just did with your doors off. It's a Jeep thing man. Sorry your Hummer still sucks.

Or, a Hummer guy would say, "I win" which in most cases not so. Also, 99.9 percent of offroaders don't have stock Jeeps or Hummers. It comes down to what you like more. You either like the fat mama (Hummer), or the sexy topless supermodel (Jeep).

But in the end pick what you want and don't go by opinion.

us v us
by: Aussie Hummer owner

So funny reading all this. I have owned and driven just about every 4x4 on the market and currently have a 2008 H3, 2' lift, 35" locked front and back.

I get what you are saying about the Adventurer being great off the showroom floor and I would put a stock H3 adventurer up against any other showroom model out of the box. That said when you start to modify say a Jeep Wrangler vs. a H3 Hummer there are over 2 million aftermarket parts available to do so and you can finish anywhere from capable tourer to a full blown comp truck without ever having to make a custom part.

The same can not be said for a H3. I have had to make most parts from diff drops to bar work, etc. So the mods are more expensive and time consuming. The IFS does have its strength problems however it has not stopped the H3 going where ever I have pointed it.

Power wise the i5 is fine unless towing with 35' (I have tuned mine with intake and exhaust work) just over 200HP at all 4 wheels. So in my opinion if you want a very capable easy to modify cheap 4x4 you can't go past a Jeep.

If you want something like nothing else that is great on road and capable off road, then buy a H3.

Ease of Modding
by: Wheels his H3s

There is absolutely no disputing if you want a cheap 4x4 that is easy to mod with TONS of aftermarket available the Jeep is the way to go.

While it some ways it sucks that there is next to no aftermarket support for the H3s it's something I also like. It means you have to be more creative with what you do.

The biggest factor is it means variety if what people do versus looking like every other rig on the trail that day. Takes more thought and effort to take an H3 to the next level and beyond which makes me appreciate it even more.

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